A former Minister of Transport, Ebenezer Babatope has made his views known on the President Muhammadu Buhari’s plan to probe the administration of his predecessor, Goodluck Jonathan.
Speaking in an interview with The Punch, Babatope enthused that Jonathan is not the corrupt person he is being made to look like.
Babatope, who is also a member of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) Board of Trustees (BoT) also posited that the PDP was not against the president’s probe but were only against bias and witch hunting.
Excerpts:
The Peoples Democratic Party has said the probes being carried out by the President Muhammadu Buhari-led administration are selective. Why are they?
Any government is free to transact any business it wants to transact. So, Buhari is correct to say he wants to probe. But all that we are saying is that he must ensure that the probe is not coloured with injustice, bias and unfairness. Once he can do that, let him go ahead. He has not unfolded the programme; when he unfolds the programme, we will know.
If he has decided to probe only the last administration, does it have any shortcomings?
He has the choice on whoever he wants to probe. If he wants to limit it to the Jonathan administration, he has the freedom. But what is important is that the probe must be free and must not be done against those that they want to persecute or humiliate because of their political affiliation. Nobody can question whatever method Buhari’s administration wants to use. It is his government and it is in his best interest to ensure that his government meets the yearnings and aspirations of Nigerians. If he says he wants to probe the administration of GEJ (Goodluck Ebele Jonathan) alone, that is good for him but all we know is that he must endeavour not to turn the probe into a kind of witch-hunt. This is why we are appealing that he should allow justice and fair play to characterise all the exercises that will be carried out on the probe. I don’t care who wants to probe; he can probe anybody he wants to probe but at the end of the day, he should be careful not to endanger or destroy the integrity of innocent people.
With what you have seen or heard so far, does the campaign look like a witch-hunt?
I cannot substantiate the witch-hunt claim now, even though the civil servants that were said to be having their property confiscated by the government have raised their voices to say they did not do (commit) anything (crime). I want President Buhari to ensure that the security agencies do very thorough job, and should not do a hush-hush job that will amount to nothing but witch-hunt. We are waiting for when they will start to see or hear the names of those who are now being called looters. As it is now, almost every Nigerian is a looter unless you are proven not to be a looter.
Would you have called for the extension of the probe to the administrations before Jonathan’s, especially those widely believed to have been very corrupt, if you had your way?
I am not a supporter, really, of what is called probe. Our leader, my benefactor, the late Chief Obafemi Awolowo, warned against a country getting itself into the mess of probing; that there would be no end to it. That was why he said the current administration should erect a thick wall between the events of the past administration and the present. That he would rather strengthen the Nigeria Police to ensure that it is mobile enough to do its job properly; to arrest and prosecute. All we are saying is that the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission, the Independent National Electoral Commission, the Police and all other agencies who are to help the government must do their job well, bring culprits to book and ensure that they bring those guilty of looting to book.
But is it appropriate for a new government not to check the books of the previous administration, especially when government coffers have been looted?
At the end of the day, I hope that this probe on corruption will not end up being a mere illusion; when you say somebody has looted but establishing the looting is very difficult. Nobody is saying it is not good for the country to fight corruption, all we are saying – and I want to repeat it – is that in establishing new morality for Nigeria, we must not cast away justice and fair play in the manner we investigate all the cases. If we do so, we will subject Nigeria to a state of irredeemable despair, and that will be very bad for us.
What then is your take on Prof. Ben Nwabueze’s stance that certain administrations recorded corruption of threatening magnitude should be probed, especially those led by former military Heads of State, Ibrahim Babangida, Abdulsalami Abubakar and former President Olusegun Obasanjo?
I am very convinced that no amount of probes on Jonathan will establish that Jonathan was a corrupt leader. He was not a corrupt leader. That is why I am proposing fairness and justice in this probe. Jonathan is not going to be found guilty of anything; I am telling you the fact. And if he (Buhari) says he wants to extend his probe to other regimes, it will be ridiculous. That was why Awolowo said any nation that goes deep into the ‘probe-probe business;’ that nation is jeopardising the future of its citizens because it can never get to an end. That was why Awolowo said he would erect a thick wall between the events of the past and of the present. All we need to do is to strengthen the Police. That is all.
If you think Jonathan was not corrupt and will be off the hook, would you admit that he had people whose activities should be probed around him?
If they are found guilty, they should be brought to book. But the way it is going; one governor was on the entourage of President Buhari to America, he came back and told Nigerians that one minister (under Jonathan) stole $6bn. This is a ridiculous thing to say. $6bn! We are talking of stones; we are talking of hard currency. All these comments are really making fun of what President Buhari is trying to do. Let them base their probes on concrete facts. It is not possible for a minister of any country to steal N6bn and stash it away in foreign banks. Which bank can accommodate that? Any of the banks that aid corruption abroad will be hesitant to take that kind of money. I know very well that Buhari’s probe will help us in this country but trying to implicate people who are innocent will be bad for Nigeria.
The PDP also said President Buhari should look inwards and prosecute corrupt persons in the All Progressives Congress and among those close to him to set an example. Does this really matter?
Of course (it does)! It will be foolhardy for anyone to think that there are no corrupt people in the APC. They also ran government (at the state level) either as Action Congress of Nigeria or any other party (before their merger). The PDP was right to say ‘place your binoculars of corruption probe on your men in the APC.’
Must the probe start from within the APC?
It can start from anywhere but make sure that you do a thorough job. If the leaders of the APC are said to be corrupt and you are investigating them, do a thorough job.
What about loyalists of the people who are accusing some leaders of the APC; are they not also expected to provide proofs?
Anybody who alleges must prove the allegation. If a PDP man says an APC man is corrupt, that PDP man must be brought forward to prove his allegation. And those accusing PDP leaders of corruption must prove their allegations against them.
What do you make of the National Peace Commitee’s meeting with the President and the advice given to him on his anti-corruption war?
We must examine what the committee said very carefully. There are many individuals in that committee who are very good ‘materials;’ like Bishop Mathew Kukah, he is a fine material; and to a great extent, Gen. Abdulsalami Abubakar (retd.) is a fine character. All they are saying is that we must not, in the guise of fighting corruption, do things that will lead to impunity and criminality. That is all they are saying. Those who are blaming them (members) are very wrong; the committee is not saying it is begging for Jonathan or (for the President) not to deal with anybody; the hand that sins must pay for its sin. But then, we must be sure that we are punishing people who have really committed the crime. If you start punishing innocent people, you are jeopardising the future of this country.
